Legislature(1997 - 1998)

05/05/1997 02:00 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
                                                                               
                      HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                  
                            May 5, 1997                                        
                             2:00 P.M.                                         
                                                                               
 TAPE HFC 97-121, Side 1, #000 - end.                                          
 TAPE HFC 97-121, Side 2, #000 - end.                                          
 TAPE HFC 97-122, Side 1, #000 - end.                                          
 TAPE HFC 97-122, Side 2, #000 - end.                                          
 TAPE HFC 97-123, Side 1, #000 - #973.                                         
                                                                               
 CALL TO ORDER                                                                 
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault called the House Finance Committee meeting to             
 order at 2:00 p.m.                                                            
                                                                               
 PRESENT                                                                       
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley               Representative Kelly                            
 Co-Chair Therriault           Representative Kohring                          
 Representative Davies         Representative Martin                           
 Representative Davis          Representative Moses                            
 Representative Foster         Representative Mulder                           
 Representative Grussendorf                                                    
                                                                               
 ALSO PRESENT                                                                  
                                                                               
 Senator Dave Donley; George Utermohle, Legislative Legal Counsel;             
 Annalee McConnell, Director, Office of Management and Budget,                 
 Office of the Governor; Alison Elgee, Deputy Commissioner,                    
 Department of Administration; Catherine Reardon, Director,                    
 Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic                   
 Development; Geron Bruce, Legislative Liaison, Department of Fish             
 and Game; Karen Brand, Staff, Senator Donley; Craig  Johnson,                 
 Staff, Senator Ward; Joe McKinnon, Anchorage; Mitchell Gravo,                 
 Alaska State Homebuilders Association; John Grummet, Alaska                   
 Insurance Agents; Mike McMullen, Director, Division of Personnel,             
 Department of Administration; Marianne Burke, Director, Division of           
 Insurance, Department of Commerce and Economic Development; Alan              
 Wilson, Alaska State Homebuilders Association; Paul Grossi,                   
 Director, Division of Workers' Compensation, Department of Labor;             
 Richard Block, Seward.                                                        
                                                                               
 SUMMARY                                                                       
                                                                               
 HB 116    "An Act relating to workers' compensation                           
           self-insurance."                                                    
                                                                               
           CSHB 116 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no               
           recommendation" and with a fiscal impact note by the                
           Department of Commerce and Economic Development; and with           
           a fiscal impact note by the Department of Labor, both               
           dated 4/25/97.                                                      
                                                                               
 SB 7      "An Act reducing certain resident sport fishing, hunting,           
           and trapping license fees, increasing certain nonresident           
           sport fishing license and tag fees, and relating to                 
           nonresident sport fishing, hunting, and trapping                    
           licenses; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
           HCS CSSB 7 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no             
           recommendation" and with two fiscal impact notes by the             
           Department of Fish and Game, and with a zero fiscal note            
           by the Department of Public Safety, dated 2/11/97.                  
                                                                               
 SB 55     "An Act relating to the definition of certain state                 
           receipts; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
           HCS CSSB 55 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no            
           recommendation" and with a fiscal impact note by the                
           Office of the Governor, DATED 4/18/97.                              
                                                                               
 SB 68     "An Act relating to the Task Force on Privatization; and            
           providing for an effective date."                                   
                                                                               
           HCS CSSB 68 (STA) was reported out of Committee with a              
           "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal impact note by           
           the Legislative Affairs Agency; and with two fiscal                 
           impact notes by the Office of the Governor, all dated               
           3/26/97.                                                            
                                                                               
 SB 103    "An Act relating to hearings before and authorizing fees            
           for the State Commission for Human Rights; and providing            
           for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
           HCS CSSB 103 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a             
           "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal impact note by           
           the Office of the Governor, dated 4/29/97.                          
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 103                                                           
                                                                               
      "An Act relating to hearings before and authorizing fees for             
      the State Commission for Human Rights; and providing for an              
      effective date."                                                         
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder MOVED to Rescind the Committee's action in              
 passing HCS CSSB 103 (STA) from Committee.  There being NO                    
 OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                 
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt work draft #O-GS0045\B, dated            
 5/1/97.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                         
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder MOVED to report HCS CSSB 103 (FIN) out of               
 Committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying                
 fiscal note.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                    
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault explained that the work draft is identical to             
 CSHB 155 (FIN).                                                               
                                                                               
 HCS CSSB 103 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do pass"             
 recommendation and a fiscal impact note by the Office of the                  
 Governor, dated 4/29/97.                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 55                                                            
                                                                               
      "An Act relating to the definition of certain state receipts;            
      and providing for an effective date."                                    
                                                                               
 ANNALEE MCCONNELL, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET,                 
 OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR noted that SB 55 establishes designated                
 program receipts as a fund source.  She discussed the Office of the           
 Governor's fiscal note.  Designated program receipt revenues would            
 increase by $2.6 million dollars from FY 97 to FY 98, without being           
 counted against other areas of the budget.                                    
                                                                               
 Ms. McConnell noted that the Legislative Auditor recommended that             
 state employee travel paid by a third party be brought on budget.             
 She suggested that these revenues be included under the definition            
 of designated program receipts.  She noted that areas in the                  
 Division of Occupational Licensing may be open for consideration.             
                                                                               
 Ms. McConnell observed that much of SB 55 has already been passed             
 as SB 136.  She recommended that section 5 be deleted.  She                   
 stressed that the Governor has the authority to put to competitive            
 bid, grants authorized by the Legislature.  She stressed that the             
 Administration has worked to issue competitive grants instead of              
 designated grants.  She requested a deadline, for review by the               
 legislature, of supplemental legislation.  She asserted that this             
 would allow the bulk of the supplemental to be done in a more                 
 expeditious fashion.                                                          
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault noted that SB 136 did not include sections 4              
 and 5 of SB 55.  Section 13 of SB 55 provides for an effective                
 date.  The language in section 4 was deleted by the House Finance             
 Committee in HCS CSSB 136 (FIN).  He observed that the title                  
 reflects the inclusion of section 4.                                          
                                                                               
 Representative Martin recounted that the Attorney General's Office            
 indicated that the other body can remove language from the bill               
 that is proposed in the title.  He stressed that the title is not             
 included in law.  He acknowledged that language cannot be added to            
 the legislation that is not reflected in the title.  He observed              
 that stripper well funding is one-hundred percent federal.                    
                                                                               
 Ms. McConnell stated that she would have to review federal                    
 regulations to determine if grants containing federal funding must            
 be competively bid.                                                           
                                                                               
 Representative Martin noted that the Governor vetoed a grant issued           
 through the Department of Community and Regional Affairs.  The                
 funding was transferred to the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation             
 (AHFC).                                                                       
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault provided members with a memorandum from George            
 Utermohle, Legislative Counsel, relating to the effect of having an           
 over inclusive bill title (copy on file).  He noted that Mr.                  
 Utermohle indicated that the more specific the description of the             
 "missing" item is in the title, the more likely that a court will             
 find the title misleading and unconstitutional.                               
                                                                               
 JOE MCKINNON, ALASKA HOUSING FINANCE CORPORATION testified via the            
 teleconference network.  In response to a question by                         
 Representative Martin, Mr. McKinnon explained that there are                  
 restrictions on oil overcharge funds.  The settlement requires a              
 spending plan for expenditure of Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Settlement            
 funds.  The plan is referred to as the Stripper Well Plan.  The               
 Alaska Housing Finance Corporation has submitted a plan covering FY           
 97 - FY 99.  This plan has received approval.  The Legislature                
 appropriated designated grants utilizing this funding source in FY            
 97.  He observed that AHFC developed its own scope of services for            
 these grants.  Both grantees objected, but ultimately signed grant            
 agreements, agreeing to perform the work.  He stated the scope of             
 the grant, what is to be done under it, and if it falls under the             
 Stripper Well Plan is at issue.  Another issue is the agency to               
 which the grants can be appropriated.  The FY 97 grants were                  
 appropriated to the Department of Community and Regional Affairs,             
 but AHFC is the designated agency that submits the Stripper Well              
 Plan.  He observed that there is a question as to whether or not              
 the grant can be designated to a specific recipient.  He noted that           
 federal regulations require competitive solicitations for the                 
 expenditure of funding from the Department of Energy.  Since                  
 stripper well funds were used as a funding source for these                   
 designated grants, there are a number of legal problems.                      
                                                                               
 Representative Davis MOVED to adopt Amendment 1 (copy on file).               
 Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                                                 
                                                                               
 ALISON ELGEE, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION               
 explained that under Amendment 1 user fees paid by pioneer home               
 residents would be accounted for separately, and appropriations               
 from the receipts would not be made from the unrestricted general             
 fund.  Two years ago the Pioneer Homes Advisory Board adopted a               
 recommendation to move the rate schedule to full cost of care over            
 a period of seven years.  She clarified that the decision was made            
 to resolve an equity issue between the nursing home industry and              
 the pioneer homes.  Long term care beds are split 50/50 between               
 nursing home and pioneer home beds.  Legislation was also under               
 consideration to privatize homes.  The Advisory Board felt that, if           
 residents of the homes were asked to pay what they could afford               
 toward the full cost of care, the privatization pressure would be             
 alleviated.  Currently, these revenues are designated as general              
 fund program receipts.  Increased user fees have not been reflected           
 as increased general fund support of the program.  In FY 98, the              
 Administration is proposing an additional $1.9 million dollars in             
 revenues from pioneer home residents.  These have been used in the            
 budget to supplant the general fund appropriation.  In FY 97, $7.8            
 million dollars in user fees were budgeted.  The Department of                
 Administration expects to collect $7.5 million dollars in user                
 fees, in FY 97.  The Department of Administration has budgeted $9.9           
 million dollars in user fees for FY 98.  This includes the FY 97              
 shortfall.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault questioned if the pioneer program is 100                  
 percent self funding.  He spoke against Amendment 1.                          
 Representative Davis WITHDREW Amendment 1.                                    
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf stressed that pioneer residents expect             
 the increase in rates to be reflected in the budget.  He MOVED to             
 adopt Amendment 1.  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.                             
                                                                               
 Representative Davies stated that designated program receipts                 
 should cover items where there is a strong expectation on the part            
 of those paying user fees that the fee is being collected for the             
 operation of the activity in which they are participating.                    
                                                                               
 Representative Martin observed that approximately $980 million                
 dollars in program receipts were previously identified as general             
 fund dollars.  He stressed that program receipts help legislators             
 to identify how much money different departments or programs                  
 generate.  He disagreed with allowing departments or programs to              
 keep 100 percent of what they generate.  He observed that some                
 programs generate more money than they expend.                                
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault pointed out that the subcommittee chairs                  
 consider the contribution of program receipts.                                
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 1.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Moses, Davies                                          
 OPPOSED:  Foster, Kelly, Martin, Mulder, Davis, Therriault                    
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representative Kohring were absent from the               
 meeting.                                                                      
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (3-6).                                                      
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment 2 (copy on file).  He            
 explained that Amendment 2 would allow the department to withhold             
 a grant if it is not in the public interest.  The Administration              
 could hold on to the money until an agreement is reached by the               
 grantee.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf theorized that a situation could arise             
 where the service is needed but the Administration feels that the             
 grantee is unable to provide the service.  He questioned what would           
 happen in the interim.                                                        
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault pointed out that the Administration admitted              
 that this section of the statute is not used very often.  He                  
 clarified that the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee would not           
 be able to award grants to other recipients.  He emphasized that              
 Amendment 2 meets the title requirements.                                     
                                                                               
 Representative Davies noted that the Legislature appropriated a               
 grant to a grantee that the Administration felt was inappropriate.            
 The Administration put the grant out to competitive bid.  He                  
 expressed support for the Administration's actions.  He spoke                 
 against removing the Administration's ability to deny a designated            
 grantee and award the grant through competitive bid.                          
                                                                               
 Representative Martin suggested the addition of "or if in conflict            
 with federal regulations and or laws."  He stressed that the State            
 intends to obey federal regulations and laws, in accordance with              
 the receipt of federal funds.  He observed that a grantee may be              
 incarcerated.  He questioned if an incarcerated grantee should                
 receive a grant.                                                              
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault pointed out that an individual may not be the             
 entity providing the service.  Representative Martin stressed that            
 a problem can occur if the individual is the sole owner.                      
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder emphasized that there is an issue of "turf              
 war" between the Legislature and Administration.  He stressed that            
 legislator's ability to name a grant recipient is at issue.  He               
 asserted that the proposed amendment makes an allowance for the               
 Administration to cancel the grant if it is not in the State's best           
 interest.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Representative Davies pointed out that it would be against the                
 public interest to issue a grant to a grantee who is in jail.                 
                                                                               
 Representative Martin MOVED to amend Amendment 2, add "in conflict            
 with federal regulations and or laws."  Representative Davis spoke            
 against the amendment to Amendment 2.  He did not think the                   
 amendment to Amendment 2 was necessary.                                       
                                                                               
 Representative J. Davies argued in support of the amendment to                
 Amendment 2.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf pointed out that the State's interest              
 sometimes conflicts with federal law.                                         
                                                                               
 Representative Martin spoke in support of the Administration's                
 action.                                                                       
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt the amendment to            
 Amendment 2.                                                                  
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Kohring, Martin, Davies                                
 OPPOSED:  Mulder, Davis, Foster, Therriault                                   
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representatives Kelly, and Moses were absent              
 for the vote.                                                                 
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (4-4).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf did not think the amendment went far               
 enough.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Representative Davies expressed concern that the amendment does not           
 allow a program to be continued if the Administration does not                
 think it is in the State's best interest to issue the grant to the            
 grantee.  He estimated that litigation will occur over the                    
 separation of powers.                                                         
                                                                               
 (Tape Change, HFC 97-121, Side 2)                                             
                                                                               
 Representative Davies questioned if the legislation fits under the            
 single subject rule.  He did not think the title should prevent the           
 removal of section 5.  He noted that titles are not enacted in law.           
 He observed that there is a general severability statute in law.              
                                                                               
 Representative Martin maintained that the amendment would have a              
 "Christmas tree effect".  He asserted that there will be a lot of             
 presents under the tree.  He maintained that the legislation will             
 open the door to designated grants.                                           
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 2.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Kelly, Mulder, Davis, Foster, Therriault                            
 OPPOSED:  Kohring, Martin, Davies, Grussendorf                                
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representative Moses were absent for the vote.            
                                                                               
 The MOTION PASSED (5-4).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment 6.  Amendment 6                
 would delete section 5.  Section 5 was amended by Amendment 2.                
 Representative Davies noted that similar language was removed by              
 the House Finance Committee from SB 136.  The amendment would leave           
 the statute unchanged.                                                        
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault referred to a memorandum by legislative legal             
 counsel which indicated that Article II, Section 13 requires that             
 the subject of each bill shall be expressed in the title.  (See               
 memorandum from George Utermohle to Co-Chair Therriault dated May             
 2, 1997, copy on file.)  He noted that the title includes this                
 section of the bill.  The memorandum stated that "the more specific           
 the description of the missing items is in the title, the more                
 likely that a court will find the title misleading and                        
 unconstitutional.                                                             
                                                                               
 Representative Davies argued that everything that is in the bill is           
 in the title.  He observed that the title would have an extra item.           
 Co-Chair Therriault concluded that, according to Representative               
 Davies' argument, all titles should say, "the following bill                  
 contains some or all of the mentioned items."                                 
                                                                               
 Representative Davies maintained that the second House should have            
 the ability to remove a section of the bill without violating the             
 title.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf stressed that titles indicate to the               
 other body what is available for discussion.  He argued that action           
 does not have to be taken on everything in the title.  He                     
 acknowledged that nothing can be added.  He maintained that the               
 title represents the parameters for the process.  He asserted that            
 every item in the title does not have to be addressed.                        
                                                                               
 Representative Martin asked for an opinion by the Department of               
 Law.  He spoke in support of the amendment.                                   
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault emphasized that if the title is broad items can           
 be added or subtracted from the general subject area.                         
                                                                               
 Representative Davies noted that anything can fit under a broad               
 title.  Narrow titles do not allow anything to be added beyond what           
 is in the title.  He maintained that there is an attempt by one               
 body to prevent the other body from taking appropriate action in              
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 6.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Kohring, Martin, Davies, Grussendorf                                
 OPPOSED:  Mulder, Davis, Foster, Kelly, Therriault                            
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representative Moses were absent from the vote.           
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (4-5).                                                      
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault provided members with Amendment 7 (copy on                
 file).  He observed that action taken in the budget requires the              
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 GEORGE UTERMOHLE, LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY             
 explained that Amendment 7 would add a new provision for a grant              
 program.  He observed that SB 107 contains an appropriation to the            
 Department of Community and Regional Affairs for grants to                    
 unincorporated rural communities affected by the Exxon Valdez oil             
 spill.  There is no grant authority in the Department of Community            
 and Regional Affairs for these grants.  The amendment would allow             
 these grants to be made.  A similar appropriation was made in 1993            
 under AS 44.47.050.  This statute does not provide the Department             
 of Community and Regional Affairs with any authority to make                  
 grants.  The amendment would make the grant authority retroactive             
 to 1993.                                                                      
                                                                               
 In response to a question by Representative Martin, Mr. Utermohle             
 clarified that the funding source is derived from the settlement of           
 litigation arising from the Exxon Valdez oil spill.  These funds              
 are limited to oil spill affect areas.                                        
                                                                               
 Representative Martin questioned how the amendment fits under the             
 title.  Mr. Utermohle stated that the amendment fits under the                
 provision relating to the state budget in a broad sense.                      
                                                                               
 Mr. Utermohle noted that the Department of Community and Regional             
 Affairs can make grants to incorporated areas through the municipal           
 grant authority in AS 37.05.315.                                              
                                                                               
 In response to a question by Representative Davies, Mr. Utermohle             
 stated that section 5 would fit under broad state budget                      
 provisions.  He stressed that section 5 is specifically provided              
 for in the title.  He stated that the deletion of section 5 would             
 necessitate the removal of that portion of the title.                         
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment 7.  A roll call vote             
 was taken on the MOTION.                                                      
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Moses, Davis, Grussendorf, Foster, Kelly, Therriault                
 OPPOSED:  Martin, Davies, Kohring                                             
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representative Mulder were absent for the vote.           
                                                                               
 The MOTION PASSED (6-3).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment 5 (copy on file).              
 He explained that Amendment 5 would add two categories under                  
 designated receipts.  Receipts from the Division of Occupational              
 Licensing and the Division of Insurance, except for premium tax               
 receipts, would be added.  He observed that statute specifies that            
 users pay the entire cost of the operation of these Divisions.  The           
 fees paid are adjusted based on the cost of providing the service.            
 He argued that these are "clearly" designated receipts.                       
 CATHERINE REARDON, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL LICENSING,              
 DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT spoke in support of           
 the amendment.  She noted that fees are raised or lowered so that             
 they break even for each occupation.                                          
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 5.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Davies, Grussendorf, Moses                                          
 OPPOSED:  Davis, Foster, Kelly, Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault           
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley was absent for the vote.                                      
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (3-7).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Davies MOVED to adopt Amendment 4 (copy on file).              
 Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED.  Amendment 4 would identify state               
 park system user fees as designated program receipts.                         
 Representative Davies maintained that users of the state park                 
 system expect that their fees will be used for park maintenance.              
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault did not think that current park receipts are              
 being used for items outside of the park system.  Representative              
 Davies pointed out that as park fees increase the general fund                
 contribution is being reduced.  He asserted that the public expects           
 increased fees to be used for additional maintenance.                         
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 4.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Davies, Grussendorf, Moses                                          
 OPPOSED:  Davis, Foster, Kelly, Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault           
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley was absent for the vote.                                      
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (3-7).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Davies provided members with Amendment 3 (copy on              
 file).  Representative Mulder OBJECTED.  Representative Davies                
 explained that Amendment 3 would require the Legislative Council to           
 administer grants.  He argued that if the Administration is not               
 allowed discretion to determine if grants are appropriate then                
 responsibility should be transferred to the Legislature.                      
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault pointed out that, with the adoption of                    
 Amendment 2, the Administration can hold a grant and negotiate with           
 the grantee.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Representative Davies WITHDREW Amendment 3.                                   
                                                                               
 Representative Martin expressed concern that separation of powers             
 are not maintained.  He cautioned that it is difficult to track a             
 large number of designated grants.  He maintained that designated             
 grants allow corruption.                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder MOVED to report HCS CSSB 55 (FIN) out of                
 Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying           
 fiscal note.  Representatives Martin and Davies OBJECTED.                     
 Representative Martin spoke against the legislation.                          
 Representative Davies noted that he could not support the                     
 legislation with the inclusion of section 5.                                  
                                                                               
 Representative Grussendorf questioned the interpretation by                   
 legislative legal counsel regarding the title.  He suggested that             
 other legal opinions be sought.  Co-Chair Therriault responded that           
 he would be seek further legal opinions.  Representative Kelly                
 echoed the comments of Representative Grussendorf.                            
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to move SB 55 from                   
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Davis, Foster, Kelly, Kohring, Martin,                 
           Mulder, Therriault                                                  
 OPPOSED:  Martin, Davies                                                      
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley was absent for the vote.                                      
                                                                               
 The MOTION PASSED (8-2).                                                      
                                                                               
 HCS CSSB 55 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no                      
 recommendation" and with a fiscal impact note by the Office of the            
 Governor, DATED 4/18/97.                                                      
                                                                               
 (Tape Change, HFC 97-122, Side 1)                                             
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 68                                                            
                                                                               
      "An Act relating to the Task Force on Privatization; and                 
      providing for an effective date."                                        
                                                                               
 CRAIG JOHNSON, STAFF, SENATOR WARD testified in support of SB 68.             
 He explained that the legislation would establish a task force to             
 identify functions of state government that can be transferred to             
 the private sector.  The task fore would be made up of members of             
 the public and the legislative and executive branches.  He stated             
 that the task force would look at every department, starting with             
 the Department of Corrections, the Department of Health & Social              
 Services, the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities              
 and contracting.  The legislation is endorsed by the Alaska                   
 Trucking Association, Gold Belt Inc., the National Federal of                 
 Independent Businesses, Alaska Nursing Home Association and Local             
 71.  He noted that 48 other states, including Alaska, have some               
 type of privatization.  He stressed that SB 68 would be the first             
 attempt to do a broad look at privatization in a non-political                
 aspect.  He maintained that it is not the intention of the bill to            
 "recreate the wheel."  The legislation was based on privatization             
 studies of other states.  The task force would divide state                   
 government into two equal parts to study over two years.  The task            
 force would be made up of members of both Houses, the private                 
 sector and appointees from the Governor.  There would be thirteen             
 members.  Minority and majority members would be included.                    
                                                                               
 Representative Davies provided members with Amendment 1 (copy on              
 file).  He explained that Amendment 1 would redistribute the                  
 membership.  He stressed that different viewpoints should be                  
 represented.  The amendment would allow the task force to select              
 the chair and vice-chair from among the members.  Amendment 1 would           
 allow the Governor to have an additional appointee.  The Senate               
 President and Speaker of the House would each appoint one member              
 instead of two.  The amendment would also add the commissioner of             
 the Department of Commerce and Economic Development or the                    
 commissioner's appointee.                                                     
                                                                               
 Mr. Johnson noted the Governor's reluctance to appoint members to             
 the task force based on concerns regarding the separation of                  
 powers.  He observed that a legal opinion indicates that the                  
 separation of powers doctrine would not be violated by allowing the           
 Governor to make appointments to the task force.  He spoke against            
 an additional appointee by the Governor.  He asserted that the task           
 force was designed to be fair.                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Davies MOVED to adopt 1.  Co-Chair Therriault                  
 OBJECTED.                                                                     
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment 1.                
                                                                               
 IN FAVOR: Davies                                                              
 OPPOSED:  Kelly, Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault                          
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Hanley and Representatives Davis, Moses, Foster, and                 
 Grussendorf were absent for the vote.                                         
                                                                               
 The MOTION FAILED (1-5).                                                      
                                                                               
 Representative Martin MOVED to report HCS CSSB 68 (STA) out of                
 Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying           
 fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                   
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 7                                                             
                                                                               
           "An Act reducing certain resident sport fishing, hunting,           
           and trapping license fees, increasing certain nonresident           
           sport fishing license and tag fees, and relating to                 
           nonresident sport fishing, hunting, and trapping                    
           licenses; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
 KAREN BRAND, STAFF, SENATOR DONLEY testified in support of SB 7.              
 She explained that the legislation makes changes to sport fish                
 license fees.  Three day non-resident sport fish license fees would           
 be increased from $15 to $20 dollars.  A new seven day non-resident           
 king salmon license would be $30 dollars.  A fourteen day license             
 would be increased from $35 to $50 dollars.  Non-resident annual              
 sport fish licenses would be increased from $50 dollars to $150               
 hundred dollars.  Resident combination hunting and sport fishing              
 fees would be reduced by $1 dollars each.                                     
                                                                               
 SENATOR DAVE DONLEY clarified that the $1 dollar reduction is a               
 response to the issuance of two licenses in one.  He emphasized               
 that the legislation addresses the problem of non-residents                   
 utilizing year long sport fish licenses to commercially harvest               
 sport caught fish.  He observed that the Board of Fisheries did not           
 address the issue.  He reiterated that the legislation reduces fees           
 for combination licenses.  He added that section 7 is a technical             
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder provided members with Amendment 1 (copy on              
 file).                                                                        
                                                                               
 GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME                 
 clarified that there have been a number of instances of non-                  
 residents selling fish harvested under a non-resident license.  He            
 indicated that the problem is not wide spread.                                
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 1.  Co-Chair                   
 Therriault OBJECTED for purposes of discussion.  The amendment                
 would lower the annual non-resident sport fishing license to $75              
 dollars.  He noted that Wyoming charges the highest fee at $72                
 dollars.  A 14 day king salmon tag would be $40 dollars.  An annual           
 king salmon tag would be $50 dollars.                                         
                                                                               
 Representative Davies MOVED to amend Amendment 1, a 14 day salmon             
 license would be 50 dollars, and an annual king salmon tag would go           
 to $75 dollars.                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder noted that the annual king salmon license               
 would cost the same as an annual sport fishing licenses.                      
                                                                               
 In response to a question by Representative Martin, Mr. Bruce did             
 not anticipate that the fee structure would reduce non-resident               
 sport fishing.                                                                
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault clarified that the effective date is January 1,           
 1998.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Senator Donley observed that the Department of Fish and Game                  
 recommended that the annual fee be $125 hundred dollars.  He                  
 suggested the annual fee by changed to $100 hundred dollars.  He              
 emphasized that king salmon fishing is unique.  He stressed that              
 these licenses are issued for a year.                                         
                                                                               
 Representative Davies WITHDREW his amendment to Amendment 1.  He              
 MOVED to amend Amendment 1, a 14 day salmon license would be 50               
 dollars, an annual sport fishing tag would go to $100 dollars, and            
 an annual king salmon tag would go to $100 dollars.  There being NO           
 OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                 
                                                                               
 There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was adopted as amended.                 
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder spoke in support of SB 7.  He maintained that           
 the legislation will help sport fisheries.  He MOVED to report HCS            
 CSSB 7 (FIN) out of Committee with individual recommendations and             
 with the accompanying fiscal notes.                                           
                                                                               
 HCS CSSB 7 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no                       
 recommendation" and with two fiscal impact notes by the Department            
 of Fish and Game, and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of            
 Public Safety, dated 2/11/97.                                                 
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 116                                                            
                                                                               
      "An Act relating to workers' compensation self-insurance."               
                                                                               
 GEORGE DOZIER, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE KOTT testified in support of             
 HB 116.  He explained that HB 116 permits the formation of a                  
 worker's compensation self employment group.  The group is defined            
 as an association of 10 or more employers who are in the same or              
 similar business and are members of the same trade association,               
 providing that the association has been in existence for at least             
 5 years.  The legislation requires the establishment of a board of            
 directors to set policy and permits the employment of a                       
 professional administrator and service companies.  In addition, the           
 legislation contains several requirements that must be satisfied              
 before a certificate of approval is issued by the director of the             
 Division of Insurance.  The net worth of the group must be at least           
 one million dollars.  The group must have security posted in the              
 amount of $450 thousand dollars.  The association must have excess            
 insurance by an approved company.  There must be joint and                    
 severable liability indemnity agreements signed by each person or             
 company participating in the group.  Fidelity bonds and errors and            
 omissions insurance are also required.  The legislation allows the            
 director of the Division of Insurance to examine finances, books              
 and records of the group.  The cost of review by the Division would           
 be born by the group.  Annual audits and statements would be                  
 submitted to the Division of Insurance.  The group would be                   
 required to make contributions to the Alaska Second Injury Fund.              
 Refunds of previous years surpluses are allowed if approved by the            
 director of the Division of Insurance.                                        
                                                                               
 Representative Mulder referred to section 2 on page 13.  Mr. Dozier           
 clarified that this section should have been deleted.                         
                                                                               
 JOHN GRUMMET, ALASKA STATE INSURANCE AGENTS ASSOCIATION testified             
 against the legislation.  He maintained that the legislation is               
 designed to lower workers' compensation costs for the Home Builders           
 Association.  He stated that the legislation does not require pools           
 to participate in the current assigned risk pool.  Fair claims                
 settlement practices would not be addressed.  He discussed the                
 Guarantee Fund.  He noted that it is not clear if all groups would            
 participate in the same fund.  He stressed that administrative                
 costs are not addressed.  There are no licensing requirements.  He            
 asserted that self insured associations would not be subject to the           
 same financial requirements as other agents.  He noted that errors            
 and omissions insurance does not cover insolvency of companies.  If           
 there is a bad loss experience in the pool they have the ability to           
 request extra funds to cover costs.  He stressed that asset                   
 requirements are not the same as those for insurance companies.  He           
 asserted that unfair competition is being created.  He noted that             
 there are 5 to 6 companies writing workers' compensation insurance.           
 He observed that rates are down due to competition.  He maintained            
 that there would not be an advantage for 5 to 7 years.  He asserted           
 that the group would not be subject to the same regulations.  He              
 expressed concern that the regulatory body will not have the                  
 ability to monitor the strength of these companies.  He stressed              
 that premium options will be reduced due to an unfair playing                 
 field, resulting in increased costs.  He stated that workers'                 
 compensation rates have been reduced by 40 percent since 1988.                
                                                                               
 In response to a question by Representative Martin, Mr. Grummet               
 explained that money must be available to pay claims.  He stated              
 that companies make money on investment income.  The more                     
 investment income the better the ability to pay claims.  He                   
 observed that high risk groups can go as a group to obtain lower              
 rates from established companies.  He stated that if there are more           
 claims than premium dollars, rates will be raised.  He noted that             
 everyone is eligible for workers' compensation coverage in Alaska.            
                                                                               
 (Tape Change, HFC 97-122, Side 2)                                             
                                                                               
 In response to a question by Representative Davies, Mr. Grummet               
 stated that agents should participate in the assigned risk pool so            
 that the same thing can be offered to everyone.  He maintained that           
 if they do not participate they are not contributing to the overall           
 benefit of the market place.  He stressed that the bad should                 
 accompany the good.                                                           
                                                                               
 Representative Kohring noted that workers' compensation rates are             
 high.  Mr. Grummet stated that the workers' compensation rate for             
 coverage of dry wall workers is $9.87 dollars per hundred dollars             
 in pay roll.  Carpentry coverage has been reduced from $17 to $12             
 dollars per hundred dollars of payroll.  He pointed out that the              
 legislation originated several years ago when the rates were                  
 higher.  Rates are based on a national average.                               
                                                                               
 Representative Kelly asked what is reducing the rates.  Mr. Grummet           
 responded that better loss control and precautions have contributed           
 to reduced rates.  There has been better promotion of safe work               
 places.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Representative Davies noted that one of the reasons the legislation           
 was introduced was to create a strong motivation for self education           
 and safety.  Mr. Grummet maintained that there will be claims in              
 the construction industry.  He stressed that there will not be                
 enough reserves to prevent insolvency with the pool.  He asked what           
 will happen to the consumer when they cannot pay their bills                  
 because they are not on the job.                                              
                                                                               
 RICHARD BLOCK, ALASKA NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY, SEWARD testified            
 via the teleconference network in opposition to HB 116.  He                   
 stressed that their primary objections have not be addressed.  He             
 noted that the primary concern is that the legislation allows the             
 creation of insurance companies without requiring any liquid                  
 capital to fund operations.  He observed that there are early                 
 operational expenses that cannot be offset by receipts of sale                
 revenues.  Money is needed to support operations until business has           
 developed.  He emphasized that the cost of goods or losses is                 
 unknown.  He noted that the insurance code requires a capital base            
 to operate.  These capital and surplus requirements have been                 
 periodically raised by the legislature.  He acknowledged that the             
 net worth of the participates must be $1 million dollars.  He                 
 suggested that this proposes that customers will pay an additional            
 amount to cover their loss.  He observed that there is no provision           
 for determining net worth.  He stressed that 50 participants worth            
 $20 thousand dollars could fulfil the requirement.  He did not                
 think this is an appropriate way to provide financial underpinning            
 for policy holders and claimants.  He stated that it is not clear             
 how the bond would be available to pay claims.  He pointed out that           
 the code allows reciprocals to provide cost control.  Associations            
 can be grouped for purposes of loss control activities, premiums,             
 and dividends.  He maintained trade group concerns can be resolved            
 through current law.  He spoke against the legislation.                       
                                                                               
 Representative Martin asked how workers are protected during the              
 transition period.  Mr. Block stated that workers would be at                 
 serious risk if the group collects insufficient amount of premiums            
 to cover losses.  He noted that losses would be paid from the bond,           
 guarantee association, and assessment.  He emphasized that the                
 individual worker would not receive compensation while the Division           
 attempts to collect the money.  He stressed that a single                     
 catastrophic loss could occur.                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Martin questioned if the State is responsible while            
 the new group establishes itself financially.  Mr. Block did not              
 think the State was responsible for guaranteeing proper workers'              
 compensation coverage.                                                        
                                                                               
 MARIANNE BURKE, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF INSURANCE expressed concerns            
 with the legislation.  She stated that there would be inadequate              
 cash to pay the claims that will be incurred.  The legislation                
 requires no money in the group.  She acknowledged that the                    
 legislation requires that the group have a $1 million dollar net              
 worth.  The legislation requires the director to issue a                      
 certificate of approval if certain provisions are met.  She noted             
 that 25 percent of the first year's premium, which must be at least           
 $500 thousand dollars, must be collected.  Of this amount, 75                 
 percent or approximately $88 thousand dollars is available to pay             
 claims.  The group must also have a bond of $450 thousand dollars.            
 This money is only available when claims cannot be paid.  She                 
 maintained that the money will not be available until the                     
 association is insolvent.  The bond would not be available if the             
 group only over-drafted.  The legislation also provides for                   
 specific and aggregate excess insurance.  She noted that the cost             
 of excess insurance depends on the trigger point for coverage.  The           
 cost of excess insurance would be in addition to what the employer            
 is paying.  She noted that 25 percent of the first year's premium             
 would be deposited into a reserve account.  This reserve can be               
 used after the premium has been spent.  She observed that there is            
 a conflict in statute.  Statute requires that the fund be                     
 maintained.  She stressed that insurance companies must collect               
 enough money to pay losses.  Their profit is on the invested                  
 assets.  This group does not have excess money up front.  They will           
 be relying on premiums to pay claims, administrative costs, excess            
 insurance, and safety programs.                                               
                                                                               
 Ms. Burke observed that the Alaska Guarantee Association only                 
 includes insurance companies.  These companies have the resources             
 to make good on claims.  She explained that if one company becomes            
 insolvent, all the remaining companies make good on the policies.             
 All insurers must provide this safety net in Alaska.                          
                                                                               
 Representative Martin asked if a worker can sue for false coverage.           
 Ms. Burke noted that the State requires statutory minimum coverage.           
 If an insurance company sold a worker something below the statutory           
 minimum they could be subject to litigation.  The legislation                 
 exempts the group from insurance laws that are not specifically               
 addressed in the legislation.  She did not know if the State could            
 be sued.  The Division of Insurance is responsible for the                    
 financial aspect of the legislation.  The Division of Workers'                
 Compensation is responsible for enforcing the laws in regards to              
 claims.  All workers must be covered.  In the case of bankruptcy,             
 injured workers would be included with other claimants.                       
                                                                               
 Representative Davies referred to page 11, lines 20 - 22.  Ms.                
 Burke explained that the group will be assessed before liquidation.           
 She noted that Title 21 provides that the Division take action if             
 there is a danger of a crisis.  The legislation requires financial            
 statements to be filed, but does not give the Division similar                
 authority to act.                                                             
                                                                               
 MITCHELL GRAVO, ALASKA STATE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION testified in           
 support of HB 116.  He noted that North Carolina was the first                
 state to institute a similar program in the 1980's.  Since then, 13           
 other states have created pooling arrangements.  The legislation is           
 based on North Carolina's statute.  He pointed out that the program           
 has been successful in other states.  He maintained that workers'             
 compensation costs have been reduced by 20 to 40 percent.  He                 
 stressed that the legislation allows groups of small businesses to            
 reduce the huge burden of the cost of workers' compensation.  He              
 compared the New Mexico program to the proposal.  Mr. Gravo                   
 indicated that the Association has 800 members.                               
                                                                               
 (Tape Change, HFC 97-123, Side 1)                                             
                                                                               
 ALAN WILSON, LEGISLATIVE CHAIR, ALASKA STATE HOME BUILDERS                    
 ASSOCIATION, JUNEAU stressed that the population of New Mexico is             
 similar to that of Alaska.  He observed that the New Mexico program           
 is successful.  He emphasized that safety will help reduce claims.            
 He stated that small businesses seldom see safety inspectors.                 
                                                                               
 Co-Chair Therriault questioned how Mr. Wilson viewed the risk of              
 personal bankruptcy.  Mr. Wilson emphasized that they will be                 
 protected by reinsurance.  He acknowledged that excess insurance is           
 expensive.  He stressed that surpluses will be used to pay claims             
 in the succeeding years, reducing the need for reinsurance.  He               
 emphasized that the group will be comprised of small, independent,            
 custom home remodelers and builders.                                          
                                                                               
 Mr. Gravo stressed that the Association believes that the benefit             
 far outweighs the risk.  Mr. Wilson emphasized that, in good years,           
 profits will remain within the group.                                         
                                                                               
 PAUL GROSSI, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION,                     
 DEPARTMENT OF LABOR noted that the Department supports the concept            
 of the legislation.  He noted that the legislation could reduce               
 risk and increase safety.  He expressed concern that there is not             
 adequate funding to assure that claims will be paid.  He                      
 acknowledged that the group could be successful if there are no               
 catastrophic claims.  He pointed out that the $1 million dollars in           
 assets exist outside the group.  He stressed that the first injury            
 could be extensive.  He noted that a ten member group could be ten            
 employees.  He maintained that other programs that have been                  
 successful have a large pool with hundreds of employees.  He                  
 reiterated concerns regarding the ability to pay claims.  He                  
 observed that he reviewed workers' compensation cases for 125                 
 members in the Alaska Home Builders Association.  The average                 
 yearly claim cost for these businesses, during the last five years,           
 was just under $1 million dollars.   He suggested the bond be                 
 determined by the director.                                                   
                                                                               
 Mr. Grossi discussed self insurers.  He observed self insurers are            
 individual employers that pay their liability and are required to             
 have $5 million dollars in assets and excess insurance.  He                   
 stressed that self insurance is costly.  He urged the Committee to            
 error on the conservative side.                                               
                                                                               
 HB 116 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                       
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 The meeting adjourned at 5:31 p.m.                                            

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